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Mass transit will not help

 

Here in southern Idaho there is a plethora of SUV's and trucks. Most are full size. Most probably average around 15 mpg. Things are pretty spread out in our state as we still resemble a rural setting with some suburbs thrown in here and there. 20 miles over to town and 5 to the kids school. Add another 20 for church and errands on the weekends. The miles add up as do the gas prices.

We don't have mass transit in most of Idaho. There are no buses that run from the ranch back to town. The family that grows America's food does not have a bus or light rail running by their front door. Most folks here have designed their lives that way. A lot of us left the city,with it's mass transit and close proximity shopping, years ago. Mass transit will not work in most Idaho areas, nor is  it welcome.

The Democrats in Congress just kicked out the idea of drilling in our own country again. With one fell swoop they have told the American people that the rising price of gas does not matter. Let the price continue to go up they stated. Who cares?

Who should care is anyone that enjoys eating. With the rising price of gas comes the rising price of food. Growing food requires gas. Gas runs pumps for water. Gas runs tractors. Gas runs balers. Gas runs aerial spray aircraft. Gas runs trucks that deliver food. Gas runs cars that deliver the farmer's family to town. Gas.

While liberals tout the advantages of mass transit as a means to escape the high gas prices, the cost of food will rise. Food cannot be grown or delivered via mass transit. A light rail system can't help plant or harvest food. City busses cannot deliver fresh meat to the grocery store. City dwellers are going to be in trouble soon.

Here in the rural areas we can escape delivery costs as well as retail costs by simply driving out to the farm and picking up the food. If we need milk, we drive over to the dairy and get some. The same goes for beef, eggs, lamb, vegetables, etc. No need to go to a grocery store and pay $8 per pound for beef when we can get it for $2 per pound at the grower. Milk for $1.50 a gallon instead of $3 or $4. Good for us. Bad for others.

Liberals are all for high gas prices. Maybe we will all move back to midtown, wear the liberal uniform, go to coffee houses, and ride mass transit or bikes. I don't think so. The cost of living that way is too high. What mass transit saves in costs, food prices will more than eat up(no pun intended). City dwellers will soon learn.

Here in Idaho we will be OK. I believe most of rural America will be just fine. Rural folks are tougher than city folks. Just like Hank Williams so aptly stated " a country boy can survive". And survive we will. Unlike our city brethren.

 

Comment balloon 43 commentsKevin Robinson • July 01 2008 11:38AM

Comments

 

Hi Kevin,

It's nice to reading a more positive blog entry, thought don't count all of us city brethren out, yet. I don't believe mass transit works very well here in the Dallas area either. We're spread out when compared to places like New York City. Quite often I see mostly empty busses. Maybe I'm out at the wrong time. It's curious that we don't hear about the all the fuel that's being used driving empty busses around town.

Posted by Todd Wakefield (KW Commercial Lake Cities - Firewheel ) almost 11 years ago

Kevin - good post, good attitude. Traditional views of mass transit won't help, however, there are several  concepts that are rarely considered that could prove beneficial.

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Good post Kevin - it's so rare for any politician to thing things all the way through, but certainly mass transit in rural America won't work.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Kevin - Congratulations this post is now featured in Silent Majority Group of Active Rain. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Kevin ~ During the Depression days, country folks fared much better than the city folks. Country folks had the chickens, cows, eggs, milk, and so forth. City folks had to rely on the mass transit to bring the food to them, thus costing more than they can afford.

History does repeat itself in various forms.

Posted by Broker Nick, Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service (South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

One thing is for sure - mass transit - anywhere - would work alot better as a private company vs the government entity it is now.  Before moving to SC, we lived in Pgh, PA.  Every year the taxes went up to subsidize the Port Authority buses and trolleys.  The drivers make a fortune, get huge retirement plans and "free" healthcare forever.....

Posted by Susan McQuaide (Keller Williams) almost 11 years ago

I,ll get out of Jersey someday but not until I finish my quest. I'm searching for one honest person.(other than myself)

Posted by Hugh Krone, Realtor, Sussex County NJ (Weichert Referral Associates) almost 11 years ago

Hey Kevin,

Mass transit is not for the United States. We are not like the European countries which have very tight concentrations of populations. With the US spread out over such a large land mass, it just isn't feasible.

Sean Allen

Posted by Sean Allen, International Financing Solutions (International Financing Solutions ) almost 11 years ago

And Sean - if you take Orlando - a fairly concentrated area of population - it still won't work because the first thing you have to do is change the culture of people.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Mass Transit doesn't work in the boondocks, quit your complaining, get a horse.

I walked to work today and will do it again tomorrow, the gas prices don't really bother me since I only drive at the most 25 miles per week

Posted by Jane Wallace, CRS | SRES, Denver Real Estate (HomeSmart Cherry Creek) almost 11 years ago

Todd:  Those "empty buses" that you refer to are no longer empty in New Mexico.  Wait until we get to what Europeans have to pay, in the $9 per gallon range.

Susan:  Europe's mass transit works well and it is run by the government.  It's not "mass transit" that is the problem, it's the way our government and our political leaders (catering to the political contributions) that is the problem.  We will eventually come together, just like Europe did.  Have you looked at the exchange rate between our dollar and their Euro?  We do not have to re-invent the wheel; we just need to recognize when a better wheel than ours is available.

Simon is correct:  we need to change our cultural values.  Do you have to have  a Hummer to prove you are a man or are successful?  The intelligent person knows we are in it together; the selfish think that "freedom of choice" is the American right.  A very wise person said a long time ago (granted, in a different context) that if we don't hang together, we will certainly hang separately.  Our corporate greed has long been based only on short term objectives; the next quarter.  We can clearly see, now that the world economy also strives for "the American way", that we need leaders, both business and political, that have a longer perspective than the next quarter.  Another wise person noted that "power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely".  That's what got us here, not liberal thinking. 

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

So Bill, will you be happy when we all have to ride in buses? Hopefully you are leading the way for us.

Let me put this in plain terms for you since you missed the point of my blog: It aint gonna happen in Idaho or anywhere else in rural America. Good luck Bill.

PS- A new poll shows that most Americans would rather drill here than conserve. Bill calls it selfish. The rest of us call it common sense.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Kevin- 10 bucks says Bill would not want the government to take over the real estate brokerages in New Mexico.

We have to protect the little people right?

Posted by Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs, Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics (Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186) almost 11 years ago

Kevin,

You will be surprised to hear that, until just recently, I rode the bus to and from work for about six months and found it to be thoroughly relaxing and enjoyable.  The cost was and is $1 each way (about 15 miles).  Now that I work out of my home office, I miss most the bus ride.  And it will happen in Idaho just like it happens in rural New Mexico; we are not that different. 

And, can you tell me why we can't both conserve and drill?  On a different but similar level, the average consumption of water in Santa Fe is about 100 gallons per person per day.  In Albuquerque, it's 155.  Most people would acknowledge that Santa Fe is a better place to live than Albuquerque.  Why do you suppose that there is such a difference in water usage?  It's because the majority of residents in Santa Fe understand that it is important to conserve the precious water that we have.  In your opinion, why is petroleum any different?

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill,

You can ride the bus all you want. I am into freedom. I would never stop anyone from riding. I would fight like hell if some socialist type tried to make me ride the bus though. I will ride my bike places long before I ride a bus anywhere. My forefathers were into freedom.

Americans do conserve gas. That is being reported even by the liberal news networks. You ask why we cannot conserve and drill at the same time? For that you must look at the Dems in Congress. They will not let us drill here.

The point of my blog was that while the price of gas is causing economic problems, the price of food (driven up by high gas prices), is causing economic havoc. While we are not allowed to drill in our own country, the city dwellers are going to pay huge prices for food, while the rural inhabitants pay much less.

One more thing: Idaho is one of the most conservative states in the US. The people here are into self-reliance and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. Liberals and Dems dont get many votes around this state. Mass transit is pretty much a lib idea. It aint gonna work here.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

American use of oil has been stable for about 20 years - despite a large number of new vehicles on the roads. That is cnservation, but you know what? It is a mixture of more efficient use of the resource and VOLUNTARY changes in people's habits. Once you start to legislate on how people should live, then you have a problem. You are by definition, attacking freedom. We have more oil in and around this country THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD - we just need the politicians to get the heck out of our way so we can go and get it!

And while that is going on, yes we need to encourage American innovation - just like we are doing with JC Bell who is building his five test plants on military bases around the country.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Simon,

Congratulations on your first Independence day as a U.S. citizen.

However, you obviously do not know any thing about our use and reserves of oil.  Our consumption in 1980 was 17.1 million barrels per day; in 2007, that rose to 20.7 million barrels per day.  Also, we do not "have more oil in and around this country THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD."  We have the 12th largest crude reserve at 20.9 billion barrels.  Compare that to Saudi Arabia (the largest by far) with 262.3 billion and even Canada (2nd largest) at 179.2 billion.  Perhaps it is your lack of correct information that leads you to so many wrong conclusions in your ActiveRain postings.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill - one of the reasons the comparison of water and petroleum doesn't work is that we have decades of crude in the ground, in several forms, that we have been forbidden to exploit.
I am for better mileage vehicles (intelligently better mileage, not just downsized cars, or over sized golf carts), for conservation (voluntary, not regulated) and innovation. However, we need to increase supply by drilling. Forced conservation, increased taxes to reduce consumption, etc will not really encourage development any quicker.

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Happy 4th of July Kevin. God Bless and be safe this holiday.

Posted by Broker Nick, Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service (South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Mike,

The comparison between oil and water does work; it shows that if we are committed to conservation, it works!!  If you are for (as you write) "better mileage vehicles (intellilgently better mileage, not just downsized cars, or over sized golf carts)", you are opting out for non-attainable solutions and, therefore, are part of the problem.  It's like the sacrifices our parents made during WWII; they did not have to save and conserve and go without; they did so because they were Americans and understood what the country needed.  The problem we face is that this administration has not made the case for sacrifice for everyone; only sacrifice for those who are brave enough or poor enough (and their families) to serve in the military.  Consequently, guys like you that are well enough off do not have any incentive or need to make sacrifices.  It's one of Cheney's corporate buddies stategies; keep the middle happy enough that they don't insist on honesty from the top 1%, that they don't have the need to sacrifice and, perhaps most importantly, they do not have to give their children or themselves to do the heavy lifting in Iraq and Afganistan.  That's why Jesse Ventura says that we need a revolution and why so many others think that impeachment of Bush and Cheney is the only way to make sure that the same thing does not happen in our future.  More local drilling does not solve the over-arching problems of our country but only allows the corporate plutocracy to assure that those of us in the middle "have our cake and eat it too."    Plays right into their game plan.  Ralph Nader is weak in many regards (as is John Edwards and Bill  Moyers) but they are right in their assessment of the corporate cabal.  And don't forget that President Eisenhower warned us long about about the "military-industrial complex".  That conspiracy of the 1% is doing and living well.  And none of them or their sons are in uniform.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill - I am really glad that you know what kind of guy I am and how financially well off. I have tremendous faith in technology and ingenuity. And you better study your history. There was mandatory rationing of food and gasoline during World War II.

When you have a real understanding of history we can continue this. When you want to get off your sloganism and rhetoric, we can continue this.

But if you want to continue to judge somebody you have no clue about and make foolish statements, well you can just KMA.  continue in your judgemental ignorance.

 

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Kevin, great post with a great attitude, and some very provocative  comments.

 

Posted by Doris Freeman, Broker/Agent, Realtor, Madison-Gibson-Crockett (RE/MAX REALTY SOURCE) almost 11 years ago

Bill,

You are very ill informed. Most likely your ignorance comes from some kind of liberal dominated media. Local drilling will lower the price. The futures market depends on s and d into the future. The corporate buddies remark is so Michael Moore that I do not even want to continue except that I am a former Marine and so are most of the men, and now women in my family. We are not rich nor are we poor. We are not any braver than most. We do not think Cheney is some great god nor do we know him personally. We are not lacking jobs when we return home from wherever the US needs us. We simply believe in our country and what it stands for. I have an uncle who was in Saigon on its last day. He flew many folks out. They (the Vietnamese he flew out) throw a party for him every year. It is a big one with lots of people in attendance. Maybe you ought to attend next year and attempt to spout your 60's hippie bullshit. I have a feeling that some 80 year old Vietnamese grandmother would kick the living you know what out of you.

If you ever want to denigrate the fine people who serve again please do it in a coffee house and away from people who serve their country in true selfless fashion.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Kevin,

Please read my post again.  I am not denigrating our servicemen and women, only pointing out that only a few serve, almost none of which come from the families of the wealthy and the politically placed.  I spent my 1968 in Vietnam flying helicopters as did your uncle.  I do know what war is about and I cry every time the causalties are reported by PBS's "News Hour".  Those guys are my brothers and sisters in every regard.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill - unfortunately you are incorrect. If you take the oil in the ground and around our coasts that we are not drilling for and add to that the shale oil and coal to oil then we do indeed have more of the black stuff than any other country in the world. As for our usuage - in 2004 we were using 21.6 million barrels a day. Today we are at 19.7 million barrels a day - with a higher population. What you failed to take into account with your math is the difference in population, but we are in fact REDUCING our demand while INCREASING out population.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

But Simon we need alternative energy. That is the liberals only answer. They just keep saying that. It is a diversion in order to get us all mad at the oil companies and ready to give up our means of transportation. I truly think they want us to all ride the bus everywhere. No more freedom to go where one wants.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Bill,

Here is your line from above:

The problem we face is that this administration has not made the case for sacrifice for everyone; only sacrifice for those who are brave enough or poor enough (and their families) to serve in the military.  Consequently, guys like you that are well enough off do not have any incentive or need to make sacrifices. 

 These ideas are old liberal ideas from Vietnam. Only the poor or uneducated serve. Wrong. Like I said, my family serves big time. Hardly anyone has not served. We are not poor nor are we uneducated. My buddies that I served with came from all backgrounds. You name it, it was there in our unit. Quite a few guys from my old unit came in with associates degrees and left with bachelors or higher. I can name 2 guys right off the top of my head who came from pretty affluent families. I know of another guy who put off a basketball scholarship to serve. There is no draft anymore Bill. I am pretty sure our military members join voluntarily.

As for your sacrifice comment, it sounds kind of like class envy to me. I am not sure what kind of sacrifice you speak of.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Kevin - on the transport thing none of them want to embrace nuclear. You see if we power the country by nuclear we would have so much more oil for transport!

As for the service thing - I too caught "only the poor serve" stuff. Frankly that is just an insult. I think Kerry said something very similar just a few months ago.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Simon,

My statistics on oil consumption come from the most recent edition of Newsweek magazine and they document several sources,  You might pick up a copy (the article is not available on-line; at least I could not find it or I would have attached it).

Both you and Kevin missed my other category for those who serve:  BRAVE.  Obviously, Kevin's family falls into that group.  I don't suppose either of you have listened to or read that many native Americans are enlisting not only to fulfill their "warrior" tradition but also because they are very poor and that is the only way to get out that trap.  Much of that applies to Hispanics as well.  Only 29% of the applicants for military service can pass the qualifications, so much for Kevin's theory that "Quite a few guys from my old unit came in with associates degrees and left with bachelors or higher."  That's not the case anymore.  With this unpopular and unwise war, the smarter you are, the less likely it is that you will join the service, especially the Army or the Marines.

Kevin,

Good question about "sacrifice".  What I try to do is lesson my "footprint" in the small ways that I can.  I drive a car that gets 35 miles a gallon, my pick-up is a five-speed, six-cylinder; not because I can't aford the SUVs that you drive, but because I believe that every American should do what they can, no matter how small, to lessen our use of oil.  I also find, as do the friends I talk with, that my use of my automobiles is much less.  I don't drive to the store for a quart of milk or a loaf of bread; I batch my trips.  I turn off lights and electronics when not needed or being used.  I re-cycle fanatically.  You get the idea; lots of little things. 

Your comment, "I am into freedom." sounds a bit like "I am entitled."  I suspect you don't really need that SUV or large pick-up, but, by god, I'm worth it!  Probably also has something to do with your "jar-head" training. ( ... just kidding, I keep forgetting that you and Simon have no sense of humor).

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

I don't have that SUV or large pickup, but, By God, I AM WORTH IT!

I have been driving a high mileage car for years. I have been batching my trips for years. I have been turning off. That isn't sacrifice by any stretch of the imagination.

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Mike,

I agree, "That really isn't sacrafice by any stretch of the imagination."  But why is it that so few of us truely conserve?  I've been doing those things all my life way before the oil crises of today or even the 70s.  Explain to me how can an intelligent and caring person can drive a hummer, build a mc-mansion, not recycle, etc?  Is it because it is about "them!?" 

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill ~ Kevin and Simon have a wonderful sense of humor, but sometimes when it comes from you it is not humor it is a put down. Try becoming friends before you try humor. JMO

Posted by Broker Nick, Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service (South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Bill - this would be the same Newsweek Magazine that warned of the impending Ice Age just 30 years ago? I prefer to get my numbers from more reliable sources such as The United Sates Energy Information Administration.

I too am worth it! I'm worth the private plane that Al Gore flies around in too - just can't afford it - YET, but I will.

Finally with regards to the military - truly the insult you deliver to these brave men and women is shocking. The insult is not reduced by inserting the word "brave".

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Bill - very easily. Just ask John Edwards, or Al Gore. Or half of Hollywood or rock & roll.  Many of the same folks who think us common people should conserve and be taxed more.

My question would be, why would any intelligent person want to place their own moral restrictions on another (excluding murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc).

There is no shortage of supply of energy. There is a shortage of common sense, though, in how to utilize parallel paths to get to energy independence without increasing taxes and destroying the economy. Conservation will not do it. It will only weaken the economy. And forced conservation will be even worse.

 

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Nick,

Simon's sense of humor did not show though on his post to me.

Simon,

Since I am a soldier, I would never berate them.  The make up of today's Army has deteriorated due to the bush-cheney war.  Nevertheless, those who serve are carrying the load for the rest of us and are the true heroes of our current generation.  Any volunteers from Haliburton that you know of?

We can argue over Newsweek's statistics, but I suspect they are closer to correct than you want to admit.  The point is still valid; our use of petroleum is non-sustainable.  We should do our best to use it wisely.

Mike,

I understand that the very wealthy are the least likely to give up anything to maintain their life style.  That's why itis all the more important that "we the people" do what we can.  if you think that there is not a limit to fossil fuels, you are not paying attention.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill - to what am I not paying attention? And what do you mean, we the people do what we can? What we can to do what?

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

I repeat Bill - this is the same Newsweek that warned of the coming Ice Age. Not a very reliable source. Secondly you ignore the hard facts. We do indeed have more oil than Saudi if we were simple allowed to go and get it. On top of that if we powered our cities with nuclear there'd be far more oil for transport. And on top of that there is American innovation. Please check out my blogs on JC Bell.

As for our military - I have a nephew in Afghanistan. He is neither poor nor stupid. My assistant's son is in the navy - again, neither poor nor stupid.

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Bill,

You are right. I do not need an SUV or a large truck. I do not need a house either. Nor do I need a cell phone or PC. I could live in a tent, cook over a fire, and walk everywhere. If "we" start deciding who needs what, we are in big trouble in this country.

I don't think it is moral for you  to use any water this week Bill. It is needed elsewhere. I don't mean just watering your lawn either, I mean any water. And I do not think you should eat this week Bill. Other people need it this week. You do not need to eat every week. Do not turn on any electronics this week. The power can best be used by someone else.

Bill, if "we" start limiting what a person can drive and live in, we will be right at the door to socialism. Work will be for just that, work. Hard work needs to have a big reward in order to make it worth it. I do not wnat to work just to work. It would be easier to go get some low pay job somewhere if my rewards are going to be limited. All of my employees would no longer have jobs. Why work hard to build a big company if I am going to be forced to live the same as a paid employee? Why would a paid employee dream of starting their own business when they will not be allowed to get the rewards for it.

One more thing. My family is native American. Half of my family is poor. They have never been in the military. The other half is pretty well off financially. Almost all of that half has served. We believe in this country as the best on Earth. We also want to help others. A big tradition in our family. I have family in country right now. They disagree with your surmisal about the military. Almost all officers have a bachelors degree before joining. Many officers have advanced degrees. In todays military, many noncoms have a bachelors or higher as well. You seem to forget that there is no draft anymore. No one is forced to go in.

 

 

 

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Mike,

Do what we can to conserve and not over consume.

Simon and Kevin,

In my reference to the "brave enough or poor enough", please note the use of the conjunction "or".  You have been criticizing that statement as though the conjunction was "and".  I don't know if you observe the casualty lists but most of the load is borne by the 19 to 25 year olds, almost all of which are enlisted.  Of course, the officers and non-commissioned officers are more educated.  Many of the young enlisted are there because they (and their families) have a high since of duty, honor, country that most of the population do not have.  Or, many of them are there because it is a way out of poverty.  The Army has always been an opportunity for the poor. Remember segregation?  In either case, I respect our soldieers and marines for their sacrifice that only they have been asked to give.  Where has the administration made the case that we are all in it together so let's make it a national priority for everyone, not just the Army and the Marines.  If this "war on terrorism" is the most important "war" in our history, why are we not all asked to sacrifice?  The answer, of course, is that Bush and Cheney do not want their friends to sacrifice; they want their friends to prosper and what better way than with a war.  Now, if we should kill or capture Ben Laden ini the process, so much the better since it makes for good propaganda.  But that is clearly not their priority.  Oil is so much more important than heroism and mission accomplishment and, most sadly, young soldiers lives.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Bill - who is going to be the judge of what is or isn't over consuming?

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Mike,

No outside judging needed.  I know when I am not doing my best to conserve so I try harder. 

As an aside, my "graphic" for this entry is; lovi-lovi.

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Hey Bill I do conserve. Hows that?

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Kevin,

Excellent!  Now, can you do even better?

Posted by Bill Schwent, Santa Fe Broker (Casa Tierra Realty) almost 11 years ago

Participate