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Offend me and go to jail

I have learned something new this week. If you don't agree with what someone writes in either a blog or a comment, you simply flag them. Yeah, thats right, instead of actually using some good old fashioned logic and debating them, you just turn them in to the AR powers. I guess it works much better than wasting your time trying to counter their point with your own point. Why think when you can just push a button. And the best part is that if you tell on them enough, they will eventually get kicked off AR. Pretty cool.

I can see this whole thing working out even better. If someone disagrees with the majority opinion, we could just throw them in jail. Kind of a "bad opinion" jail. We don't like what you had to say, so we will silence you. Maybe while they are in the jail, we could teach them how we want them to think. Retrain or re-educate them, if you will. I think this may work.

To really refine the sytem, we will also go after anyone that offends anyone else. Lets say Bob says my shirt is ugly. My mother gave me that shirt. I love my mother. I get offended. I turn Bob in. Maybe a few days in the "you offended me" jail will teach him. Besides, I don't want to hear that kind of talk anyways. It offends me, and after all, it is all about me.

Go ahead and comment if you wish. I may take a bit to get back to you. I am reading about a guy named Valdimir Lenin. He had some really great ideas.

Comment balloon 27 commentsKevin Robinson • May 29 2008 11:55AM

Comments

What's going on at AR with Bill has nothing to do with disagreements.  It has to do with hateful, offensive comments.  There is a HUGE difference.

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Chris my point is that anyone can get offended. Sometimes what offends me does not offend you. I find abortion very offensive. Being in favor of it is hateful to me. Some call it choice. I don't try to get them silenced. I find terms such as Bible thumpers and religious zelaots offensive. I have been called both on here. To a Christian those are hateful comments. The person calling me them probably did not think they were that bad. Some folks on here do not like anyone to call their candidates names or joke about them. Offensive to them but not to others. If we kick everyone off who offends us, this place will be empty. I offend you and you offend me. I find you vile and disgusting and you find me vile and disgusting. Now what?

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Good morning Kevin, very interesting talking points indeed. Offense, like beauty, appears to be in the eye of the beholder.

Posted by C Tann-Starr (Tann Starr & Associates, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

I bruise you

You bruise me

We both bruise to easily.....

Simon Garfunkle

There is some current offensive name calling going on by someone who insists she isn't name calling. I have not flagged it, I won't threaten to flag it.

Kevin - my mother (rest her soul) has given me some really ugly shirts. Guys need to stop letting their mothers dress them by the age of 12.

Chris - why do so many on the dissent side feel that their comments are not hateful?

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Mike - I have been the target of that same offensive language from that same person this morning. I won't flag it and i won't threaten to either.

Kevin - have to agree with Mike here as well. I think I was 11 the last time I let my mum (who passed some considerable time ago) decide how I was going to dress. Do we need to send you to fashion jail too?

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Well then I guess the difference would be if someone were to call ALL Christians zealots or bible thuimpers, that would be an offense worthy or banishment along the lines of Bill's racist comment.  Grouping people together and stereotyping them is inappropriate.  Discussing someone's personal behavior based on your contact with them and knowledge of them is an opinion.  I've been called many names here, I pretty much just laugh and move on. 

Mike - If my comments have been hateful rather than a reaction to hatred, please let me know.  I am certain I can get carried away in the heat of a debate, as can anyone.  I guess I am using the term hateful to replace bitogry and racism.  That's what I'm generally calling hateful.

Chris 

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Chris - it was not you that I was referring to, I honestly don't remember if you have or haven't. Whether it is an individual or a group, hateful terms are hateful terms. And they are often used as convenient ways of attacking the credibility of a message by disparaging the credibility of the messenger. Hateful terms do include more than racism.

 

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

Mike - I understand, mean is mean.  However, I can much more accept someone saying, "Chris, you are a b*t*h," based on their experience of me than if they were to say, "All women are b*t*h*s."  There is definitely a difference. 

Chris

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Kevin- Exactly the point I was trying to make awhile ago, If Bill deserves to be gone so do at least a couple of dozen more including at least one of the protected.

Posted by Hugh Krone, Realtor, Sussex County NJ (Weichert Referral Associates) almost 11 years ago

Chris - the "b" word is an insult. But how about "Chris you're a racist"? Now however much you know that not to be true, somehow "no I'm not" isn't enough. Isn't that hate speech?

Posted by Simon Conway (Orlando Area Real Estate Services) almost 11 years ago

Simon - you can substitute racist with facist, nazi, etc. and they can all be hate speech.

Posted by Mike Saunders (Lanier Partners) almost 11 years ago

No Simon Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting. It is also sometimes called antilocution and is the first point on Allport's scale which measures prejudice in a society.

So a racist or anti-gay comment would be hate speech.  Insulting an individual personally may be hateful, but is not defined as hate speech.

Chris

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Hello Chris-- great quote/definition of "hate speech." The key point for me is the "intended" part. I have asked on more than one conversational thread what people's intentions were and whether the inadvertant use of a poor choice of words was the key to forgiveness. I am trying to understand what other underlining issues were a factor at play here that appears to make any person's reinstatement to AR distateful.

There is a lot of spin available from numerous groups providing commentary on the pro and con angles, however, the common denominator I see appears to be the argument or theme of "are the rules to be applied evenly or can one group manipulate the ouster of another member?"

There is no doubt something went terribly wrong during a heated and not too nice debate and this incident caught my attention because B.B. is (a founder of a group) direct actions resulted in his being being stripped from his project for inappropriate behavior and banned from A R. The ban appears to have brought further discredit to him (lots of name calling going on), thus arresting the attention of others like me because you cannot escape this ongoing conversation. Like a verbal virus it has indeed infected this forum and it will not stop until further action has been taken by the principle players.

No one disputes the comment was inappropriate, no one disputes it wasn't the first time, everyone speculates the venom will continue but we don't know that and can not see the future. The man has explained his intentions an apologized for it, therefore the debate appears to be why other equally inappropriate commentary failed to receive an equally progressively punitive or exact same sanction. Some believe the lack of publicity of other members possibly private sanctions should be mitigating his infraction to at least cracking the door open for the hope of his possible return. I know A R has discretion to sanction the modification of its administrative actions and am personally curious as to why they are  continuing to say "no" in front of thousands of people on a daily basis.

How about a "maybe" instead? Something really good could happen here for both sides of the table.

Lifetime banishment seems a bit extreme for a man who has clearified his intent, recognized his mistakes and has publicly apologized. Even felons can get a certificate of relief or pardon for good behavior. Give him a chance to show you he can be good. An A R suspension with a probationary period would be a little more merciful, don't you think? If he blows probation, then there is nothing anyone else can criticize A R about because administratively he would have exhausted every option available to remain in the virtual community.

Just a thought...

Posted by C Tann-Starr (Tann Starr & Associates, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Nice idea. I like it. Maybe the AR folks will go for it.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

C Tann-Starr - I only provided the wikipedia definition because Simon wondered if calling me a name personally wasn't hate speech, which it's not.  I have no say in whether Bill is banned for life or just a probationary period.  I can only guess, from my personal experiences with Bill, that he has been flagged many times and warned many times (not by me personally, however).

As for this:
No one disputes the comment was inappropriate, no one disputes it wasn't the first time, everyone speculates the venom will continue but we don't know that and can not see the future.

Shockingly, I've seen at least a few people disputing that it was a racist comment and even some who say they have never seen Bill say a hurtful or offensive thing.  All I can do is laugh.  I've actually rarely seen Bill say anything that isn't offensive, however to be fair  I'm not in the habit of reading his blogs and only run into him in comments on other people's blogs.

As far as his apology... I'd like to see an apology about all of his gay bashing sentiments as well and a promise they will discontinue, but that's very unlikely. 

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Hi Chris-- the more I read the more I am discovering just how complicated and inapprorpiate several postings were. I don't know what he was thinking when he wrote what he wrote, but I do know how they appeared to people and it is a shame what it has done to several segments of the A R community. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Enjoy your evening. Regards, C.

Posted by C Tann-Starr (Tann Starr & Associates, Inc.) almost 11 years ago

Kevin, let's see if the flagging button works for the Conservatives and Christians...Great point , Don't think just push the button.

YOu gotta love how Hillary was attacked and jumped all over for her Bobby Kennedy Comment...  When you hear the whole speech that it was taken from it mean't nothing but the great twisted words they jumped all over is the usual pc  that we see everyday, Our new PC way of editing the comments is beginning to make the Narional Enquirer look good. This is an embarrassment to our mentality this chop and paste Racist or offended crap that is being pulled lately.  Just look what happened to BIll. Soon no one will even care to read articles becuase they are so taken out of context. ALready I see that attitude of believing that the press is all lies flaring in our younger generation. We had better wake up before the damage can not be undone.

C. if you read the blog and his statement you would understand how twisted out of context that supposed Racist comment was.

 What if I said that "all Christians and Conservatives are like lemmens with their voting statistics too".. oops I said the big L word. Hurry If I said this would all the Christians and Conservatives flag me. Flag me quickly.  Maybe Nick or Hugh would be the first to flag me for my comment... How about you Simon?.This is so ludicrious.  Christians know from the get go that we are not going to be popular, Jesus warned us in the Bible. It is the norm for us, we just take it in stride and deal with it or as I should say. Ignore it. Christians know that we are not going to be accepted by all and hated by a few... We Don't care because we are filled with God's love and that feeling is so awesome that it is worth the fight.

Love it!!!!

 

Posted by Mary Thomas BH,MB,HB, PV, Estates LA+, Mary C. Thomas Your Agent around the Globe ( Remax Estates Properties) almost 11 years ago

Hey Kevin,

Excellent blog and a very relevant comment to the topic. Thanks for posting.

Sean Allen

Posted by Sean Allen, International Financing Solutions (International Financing Solutions ) almost 11 years ago

Kevin,

Nice post!

Chris,

Taken from your comment...

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion,...

I underlined and bolded the words I want to talk about.  I hear people saying that when someone talks bad about MY religion, making fun of it or those who believe it, it is not Hate Speech.  Your definition says it is.

I know I am not the only Christian who feels this way on here.  We do not look for people to be kicked off.  The hypocrisy on this is amazing!

Posted by John Hersey, e-PRO Realtor (Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Homesale Realty) almost 11 years ago

I stand by my original post  except for one item- I will stop letting my mom dress me. Now I have to tell her and that will be scary.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

Kevin- Anyone in the military during the Clinton years as I was will tell you we spent many hours on how not to be  a racist or sexist.  Many on the left really do think we are bitter gun toter's who cling to their bibles. 

Just like global warming, if you dont believe in it you are evil.

 

Posted by Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs, Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics (Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186) almost 11 years ago

I am very evil to a lefty. The funny thing is that they don't know how offensive it is when they call me that because they are not a right wing conservative who has been oppressed. So how could they understand how insulting they are with their hate speech?

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

John - for the record, that is Wikipedia's definition, not mine.  I know there are many Christians on AR that do not say abusive things about gay people.  I'm pretty sure they don't get slammed on their blogs.  That's the difference.  The anger often directed at Bill was due to his words and abuse, NOT his/your/anyone's religion.

 

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

Chris,

If this is a definition you agree with we should use it.  I never said abusive things about anyone and got slammed about believing in a fairy tale, etc...  That was directed towards me, not Bill.  You might have been one of them, I would have to check.

Posted by John Hersey, e-PRO Realtor (Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Homesale Realty) almost 11 years ago

Kevin- Check out my latest post "Hillary supporter loses her mind" if you want to see evil. 

Posted by Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs, Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics (Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186) almost 11 years ago

I will check it out Larry. I think most Hillary supporters may have already lost their minds.

Posted by Kevin Robinson, Fractional Developer almost 11 years ago

John - let me know if it was me.  I have seen the fairy tale comments and they usually follow statements against other people's beliefs. 

Posted by Chris Fisher (Your Virtual Assistant) almost 11 years ago

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